@ilpianista
I have not used xmpp in ages and have never used session, but I like the matrix protocol (in my case I use element client). @matrix

@rimugu
In my mind (but I might be wrong) Matrix is my alternative to Slack, but not to WhatsApp. I mainly use
@matrix to join development channels, not to have chats with friends (still, I might be wrong and I should advocate for Matrix instead of $InstantMessaging)

@ilpianista
The only thing that prevents matrix for chatting with friends is adoption. I have used it successfully (although not much) in that arena.
Yet it seems that it has more adoption than Session.

@rimugu I think the Session is the "number one" here, but advocating for Session adoption is hard and at that point I would rather advocate for because I already know the protocol && it keeps evolving since 20 years && I can selfhost it. I can't selfhost Matrix with the same resources and I can't host Session with the same money.

@rimugu
I can, I just said it needs more resources compared to e.g. prosody. I'm wrong?

@ilpianista
No idea what kind of resources prosody use. I was wondering which matrix server implementation you are comparing against. Synapse is the most common, but I know there are others like Dendrite that use less resources.

@rimugu
Uh, there's also Conduit that promises to be faster. I never thought that there could exist different server implementations out there

@ilpianista
I have not experimented with any yet. But it seems it would be nice in the future.

@rimugu @ilpianista There is currently no Matrix homeserver implementation which can beat the resource efficiency of #Prosody. I'm hosting prosody for my family and memory usage is currently at 6.21 MB RAM and I have not seen any CPU load above 0.00. It's not even close.

@ilpianista @session @xmpp #xmpp forever. But those DHT or Tor based messengers like #briar or #jami are interesting too (but serverless implies no offline messages)

@woffs @ilpianista @session @xmpp P2P messengers are interesting, but current mobile OSes seem to have problems keeping even one background TCP connection running (like #xmpp does). And there is the problem of traversing multiple layers of NATs. Sadly, I don't think we will see an usable #P2P messenger in the near future...

@kaip @ilpianista @session @xmpp have you tried p2p messengers and had bad experiences? (I haven't used them in RL yet.)

@woffs @ilpianista @session @xmpp Yes I have tried #Jami, but I remember having some trouble sending files I think. Also there was no group chat functionality. I decided to stick with #xmpp in the end.

@kaip @woffs @ilpianista @session @xmpp it's coming. I added the button on desktop as an experimental feature.

@ilpianista It really depends what your priorities are.

At a high level, if you find comfort in cryptocurrency and blockchain tech, Session certainly has an interesting design (I'm afraid I've too little experience as a user to give comment from that angle).

If you're more into federation, data sovereignty and bridging, XMPP has a more obvious design. It can be self-hosted, and can be used with more traditional open onion networks (e.g. Tor/I2P) if that's something you need.

@ilpianista Personally, I self-host XMPP for my family using Snikket.

The ease-of-use features it brings (such easy onboarding, automatic contact lists, etc.) and the ability for me to know that our data never goes through a stranger's servers... that makes it the ideal solution for my needs, and Session wouldn't be half as successful here.

But if you're communicating mostly with strangers, or don't care for self-hosting (i.e. only ever using public servers), many of these benefits become less clear cut.

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