@yogthos Or perhaps "we"¹ want immediate comfort / entertainment more than "we" would like to admit? In this sense, the markets indeed do meet "our" needs…
And also, decades ago, the engineers would be used to develop some pointless weapons and related stuff.
¹ population at large, not just the selected minority of "intellectuals"
@yogthos P.S. With that in mind, it seems pointless to blame "the markets". — Given the social dynamics and attitudes, leading to the formation and sustainability of the markets, a central planning likely wouldn't produce any better outcomes; and the results of the votes seem to be in agreement with the profitability of the businesses.
@amiloradovsky sure, most people don't think big and are perfectly fine with frivolity. I think this is precisely why we need to have a vision as a society. Something that gets people interested in things bigger than themselves.
For example, recent study found that kids in the West want to be Youtubers while kids in China aspire to be astronauts. Collective vision matters.
@yogthos Not that I'm arguing against pointing out the problems — after all, one has to be loud to outscream the other advertisement, which keeps insisting on everything-is-fine — but much of those memes and speeches just seem to be imbalanced: refusing the idea of "wisdom of the crowd" because this "wisdom" doesn't align with my views on the life.
Anyway, I guess the message should be not "market bad", but "stop wasting your resources, people — yes, they're yours too but damn!"
@yogthos P.S. WRT "yours too" — even a person's lifetime doesn't belong to the person entirely — one does always owe it to somebody. Destroying one's health deliberately, for example, is a slap in the face of those people who sacrificed some of their positive experiences just so the person in question could ever exist and make a choices.
@amiloradovsky @yogthos people want it naturally so badly that we have to shove it in their. faces and associate a little stick of burning leaves it with freedom, independence, rebellion, heroism ...etcetera etcetera.
Aw shucks i am on my intellectual high horse again!
PS the leaves that are harder grow, duh who wants competition, duh!
@hugot @amiloradovsky we don't all have to be interested in science obviously, but my issue is that capitalism fostered a very shallow and materialistic culture. People tend to want to be youtubers simply to get attention.
If we had more social services to develop arts and science that helped kids find more meaningful outlets instead, I think we'd live in a better world.
For example, let us assume your hypothesis is true, and we do care very deeply for immediate gratification. If that is the case, which good is more desirable for me? One where I have to pay $5 every time I want to feel it, or one where I can input a cheat code, or receive it naturally through playing the game; here I'm talking specifically about the Bejeweled type of game where even for "simple" imputs, the game rewards you with a plethora of overwhelmingly positive feedback.
@amiloradovsky Right, did you also read my second post after that one, or was the first illustrative enough and in no need of clarification?
@trickster I read, but didn't find it relevant. I can't relate to that mindset personally. That's why I enclosed "we" and "our" in quotes in the first place. See footnote ¹.
@amiloradovsky fair enough
@amiloradovsky Free market can also mean a type of market (which is contrasted against a "regulated market") where tariffs and regulations are kept at a minimum if they're not downright absent. You are correct in using the term, this much is true. Just wanted to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
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